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You're tuned in to the 411 with SOS, the business of the music business, for those who don't know but need to know.

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Hi, this is Sondra Smith and this is the 411 with SOS. This show is about the business of music. Today we're talking to Maxine Jones, who is one of the lead singers of the Funky Divas Revolution. She is one of the lead singers of the super, super group En Vogue. And we are going to be talking today about contracts, because what you don't know about contracts could literally ruin your career. Signing contracts that has not been reviewed by an entertainment attorney or somebody of equal stature can arrest your career before it even gets started. Contracts should enhance your life. They should help you take your career to the next level, not be a deterrent that prevents you from thriving as an artist and an individual. And so now we're going to be talking to Maxine Jones. Our talk today is on contracts, right? Everything you do not know about contracts could literally kill your career. Our guest today is the amazing the incredibly beautiful and talented Miss Maxine Jones Former lead singer of the amazing group En Vogue. She knows a lot about contracts and she's here today To share some of her experiences with us Thank you for being here. Thank you for that introduction. Oh my god. It's all true. Okay guys, so full disclosure, when I was a record rep in the Midwest for EastWest Records, this lovely lady was signed to the label. So I am beyond excited to circle back at this point in my life and connect with her again. Thank you so much, Maxine. My pleasure. So the first question that I want to ask you that the contract you were signing could be then sold to another entity or that it was a contract with these two individuals that then would be transferred to somebody else? Um, no. We knew nothing in the beginning, okay? As a matter of fact,

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we got the contract and all the legalese terms and all that stuff was like...

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Beyond your comprehension.

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Yeah, totally beyond. We couldn't even get past the first paragraph in it. We knew nothing about it. We were told... I knew it was a production deal. That much I didn't know because we were signed to... We were put together by two producers from the Bay Area called... Their names are Denzel Foster and Thomas McElroy. They were, they had a production deal. And we were told at the time that they would be, they had three acts they were putting together for the label, basically. So we, we were clear that we were signed to the producers. Right. I don't, it wasn't in our head. We knew that they were signed with the label. East West. Yes. So as far as like transferring our contracts, I don't think any of us were thinking anything like that. Our contract we were told was we had to if we wanted to be in that group we had to sign that contract as is. As it was. There was nothing no matter we were told no matter who you're going to show this contract to it's not going to change at all. Okay, and so we had a choice. We did have a choice to sign it or not sign it, you know.

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And you decided to sign?

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We decided to sign it because, you know, well Denzel Foster and Thomas McElroy, they had a reputation in our area. They were huge. They were successful. They were very successful. So it was our chance in our minds to have a real record deal and finally be like really in the industry.

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Recording artists. Recording artists. To be true recording artists. True recording artists. On a fairly successful label. Exactly. Because that was under Atlantic Records, which was a big label.

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Exactly, they were up there. So we gladly signed it. Gladly signed it. You know.

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And so as a result of that contract, how do you feel that your career then was impacted? So the contract, in hindsight of course, because everything is hindsight. Did it serve you? Was it worth it for you to sign that contract to get

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your shot at being a recording artist on a major record label? You know, I would say yes, because you know when I think back, even as bad as the contract was, it was our shoe-in. I mean that's how we got into the industry. I would sign, I would. Isn't that crazy? But, you know, we, yeah, I mean, I think I would. I would, you know, if someone said, hey, sign this, this is your chance to get into the industry and the scenario was the same. They were attached to a real label deal. Yes, they were.

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Yeah.

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Yes, you would do it again.

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I would do that.

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I mean, we, I would, I'm sorry. No, no, no, there is nothing to be sorry about because what I'm trying to do here is obviously educate. So Maxine, can you tell us, the audience, what is a production deal versus a record label deal?

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Well, a production deal is when you're signed to the producers of your project, as opposed to the label. The label at that time was giving out production deals to producers and their concepts basically. Denny and Tommy at that time had a three act production deal so they could deliver three acts to the label and the label would basically approve them and say yes because this was their production deal. As opposed to being assigned directly to the label. So we were assigned to the producers who were assigned to the label.

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And so just a little bit of inside information. That was the beginning of the laziness of the industry because normally it would have been the A&R person that works for the label, would be out there scouting talent, finding you guys. So when they started finding independent individuals that had their own situation set up, it was just a yes, no kind of thing.

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Exactly.

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Basically. They could approve or disapprove.

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And they didn't have to do all the work.

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They didn't have to be, they didn't really have to have all of the investments that normally the label would be responsible for if they were not doing these production deals. So, and I get it. It saved them a lot of money and it saved them a lot of manpower of not having to go out there and look for talent. Yeah. Gotcha.

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Yeah. And I, and also too, I want to add to that, that, um, Denny and Tommy, uh, because they had that deal, they had the concept of putting together a girl group and they found us individually.

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So I was gonna ask that question, but you just addressed it. I wanted to know how did you guys come together as a group? So they just auditioned, because you were all musicians, all entertainers doing your own thing, right? Yes.

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I, in particular, was performing locally in the Bay Area. I was working at a hair salon during the day braiding. I was a braider. And you know, I had been hearing and working at night, singing background and trying to be a solo artist.

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For other groups and yourself, right?

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Exactly. And then, you know, we had the word was around that Denny and Tommy were trying to put together this girl group and you had to be recommended to be to go to the audition. And it had been like months, and I wanted to go so bad to this audition, but you had to be recommended, nobody was recommending me.

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And did you know people that knew them that could recommend you?

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No, but I did know people who had gone to the audition. Yeah, for that.

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Gotcha.

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So how did it finally break for you?

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You know, there was a guy in the salon, my friend now, Kenneth Hall. He's my friend then, too. You're saying he's still your friend. But, you know, he was standing around. He had recommended someone else to the audition and he was in the salon at the time and I was like, why don't you recommend me to the audition? And he was like, really? OK, Max, you know, and he recommended me. It was like literally like that, like, oh, okay.

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And wow. Totally divine order.

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That is so awesome. And on the day that I showed up for the audition, the other three ladies were there. So that, we, this, it was our first time all there on that day. And, and we made it. We made it. Magic. All four of us made it. Magic.

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Because you had magic. Yeah.

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And together.

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Yeah.

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It was magic.

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Yeah, it really was.

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And so you did not know them You know I had heard about Cindy and her and I had worked together in the theater production Previous, but we I didn't know her I personally personally at all and she was pretty famous in the area area Oh, she was a child star. She had done television acting I see she's done a lot of local work I kind of looked up to her actually. It was like, wow, you get to work with her. I get to work with her. So it was interesting to be at the audition with her. I was like, wow, okay, you know, this is gonna be cool. Yeah.

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And of course, I mean, you were young, right? And so young people are so hopeful. They're so aspirational. They are so ready to conquer the world. Exactly. And young people never think anything bad is gonna happen.

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I mean, it's like,

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we were excited, please, this was like the bee's knees.

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Totally.

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So tell me how, I mean,

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so how long were you guys a group together before, you know, it turned into just what it is now?

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Well, we were a group together. Once that audition, it took some time for them cause they were looking for three girls and they told us all you guys aren't going to make it and but the way Denny did the audition you know he he we were all sopranos and he tried every voice out you know like I had to sing the top I had to sing underneath the middle and the bottom. And then, you know, it all came together. I never knew that I was a alto until that moment because I winded up singing the bottom note in the group. So I'm sure... You took your voice there. Yeah, you know, and that much... Musically, I so respect those producers. The most fun I've ever had in the studio was with those guys and working with those guys. They're geniuses in the studio. I love those guys for that. And they discovered something about me I did not know, which is that I could sing low and I could sing high. It was really cool. It's

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a great experience. So overall...

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It was great.

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It was great.

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It really was great.

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Overall, you have no regrets. I have no regrets. I really don't. I don't have any regrets the only I do have regret. What would that be and that's just not Being knowledgeable about the industry. There's so much I would have done once You know, I made it like I would have prepped to be solo. Mm-hmm. I would have You know, I would have kept my day job you know because I was I as a as a your day job as what?

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As a braider.

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I totally would have because I, I was, I would have because I had, I was the best at what I did at that time in the area, you know...

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Coiffing hair.

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Coiffing hair, braiding hair in particular. I had a six month waiting list. Um, I was totally supporting myself as a braider, you know. Oh my God, that's awesome. So I mean, that's what I did. And yes, so I would have kept that going.

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You know, so that when you went home, because but but you guys took I mean, you were busy. There was I couldn't do anything else like that, but I probably would have,

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you know, trained, opened a salon, trained people to do what I did. I could have.

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Tell us why you didn't do that.

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I was I you know, once my, once I found out I had made that group, to me everything else was over and this was my new life. I shut down completely. My clients were so disappointed in me. They were. Some of them were very hurt by it.

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I mean, unfortunately that happens though, but you were following your heart's desire and chasing your dream. Exactly. I mean, I don't know that anybody could have given up that opportunity. It was a great opportunity and I just embraced it. So thank you for sharing all that you have thus far with us. I have a lot of respect for you not just because you're an amazing talent but I think you're an amazing human being and you have so much grace and so much humility. I know that there are amazing things in your future. So tell us a little bit about what have you been up to since that chapter of your life closed.

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Oh my gosh. So much has happened in just this last two years, even during COVID, we're in COVID right now.

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Oh my gosh.

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Oh my gosh. But we've opened a studio, this fabulous place that we are in right now.

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We are here and it is gorgeous. What is your studios called?

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It's called Star Max Content Studios. What is it, Brian? Tell us. Star Max Custom Content Studios.

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And you're going to be doing what here?

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This is a place where folks can come in and create custom content. And we're just making it the cameras, the studio, our soundstage, our LED wall experience available to...

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So fabulous. Yes. So you have always been an entrepreneur because you started off with your hair business. You became an entrepreneur basically during the music and now you're back owning. So you have like I know that that is the most exciting thing to be in your own space. Ain't nobody coming here to put you out. Ain't nobody coming here that you can invite in. Is that not the most amazing feeling? It's awesome. How did that come about? With my amazing partner Brian Martin. I know him. We know him and we love him. So yes, very creative. He's very creative. He's a corporate genius in my opinion. He just took my whole experience and combined with his experience and we created this experience. He just had a good mind to put it all together and how we could integrate all of our experiences and our talent. And that's this. Brian's dad was in the film industry. Quinny Martin was a producer and editor on so many classic films and TV shows.

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And just that combined with my experiences and Brian's corporate experiences, this was the result.

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And it's beautiful.

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I'm so happy. I love coming here every day.

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Isn't it wonderful? That is the best thing that you can say, that you can't wait to go to the place where you go to work and you create. How many people can say that? That is a tremendous blessing.

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A dream come true for me.

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I've been, it's what I've been visualizing,

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and here we are.

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I love these photos that are up here. I mean, I think you always look fabulous, but these are amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about the photographer that did this for you?

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I love this guy. His name is Jerry Guiones. He's renowned, world renowned. Yeah, he captures. Yeah, and he just did these for us, and I love these. This particular one over here was from a set we did for, I think, Glamour Magazine back in the day within Vogue. And this was just, I only had a little tiny shot of it and I had to blow it up and I made that.

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Sorry, sorry producers.

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No, it's fabulous. It's you, you look fabulous. Of course you want to make it life-size. Yeah. So, okay, I know you have got to be working on new music because I know not just me, but your fans are waiting. So what we got coming?

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We got, we're here we are we're

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this is September we are gearing up to release new music a new project and along with my book. You have a book coming? When are we gonna get this book? All the questions that you're asking me. Because I know we're just touching the we're just skimming the surface we're not even right here. Exactly. You have a lot to tell. You have a many, literally how many years have you been in entertainment now?

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Oh, 30, 30. Well, in entertainment, I mean, I started before the girls,

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so I would say 40. Your entire life. Yeah. So yes, I am sure you have a lot of experiences that you can share and that your audience is gonna be excited about. I know, I can't wait. So we are wrapping this up, my dear. Thank you so much. If there's one thing that you could tell the audience, the one thing that you would do differently, what would that one thing be? Or just one piece of advice that you can share with them and leave them with that they can take and use on their journey as they are trying to navigate these waters of entertainment.

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You know, I talked about how I would sign that same contract. Yes, you did. But I would definitely recommend people understanding contracts. Because I could tell you that I got presented with a non-negotiable contract recently, and I would never sign a non-negotiable contract again. You know, I certainly not with what I know now. I would not. And I think as a group we were lucky enough to be able to renegotiate that, you know. And you learn, you know, during the whole renegotiation process you learn everything about contracts. You really, really do.

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Did you guys get a lawyer the second time around?

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Yeah, oh yes, absolutely we had a lawyer the second time around.

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An entertainment attorney, right?

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An entertainment attorney.

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Not just any lawyer.

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Yes, we had the top entertainment attorney in the business world.

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Because you could at that point.

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Exactly.

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So it makes sense for you to realize that you were getting into something that perhaps didn't have your best interest at heart, but when you gained some leverage, you guys were smart enough to go and say, we're not doing that again because we've got leverage. We're going to go find a lawyer who can help us.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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That's fantastic.

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It still was kind of nutty, but you'll read more about that in my book.

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In the book? Okay.

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But not as bad as the first one.

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Not as bad as the first one.

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Yes, that's going to about wrap it up here for the 411 with SOS on 91.5 Jazz and More. Thank you so much, Sondra Smith, for coming on and being a part of the family. And thank you so much to Maxine Jones, formerly of In Vogue for fantastic information and a really insightful interview on the music industry. You can catch the 411 with SOS every second Sunday right here on 91.5 Jazz and more but don't go anywhere because in just a few minutes it's the Blues Doctor coming at you with nothing but the blues. Keep it locked. it locked.

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you